For getting the real big fun, go to the Neurologica-Blog of Steven Novella:
http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=439[*QUOTE*]
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31 responses so far
31
Responses to “Skeptical Battlegrounds: Part III – Alternative Medicine”# Clinton Huxleyon 15 Dec 2008 at 8:22 am
Presumably, natural selection will take care of this problem eventually…..
In the UK one of the main problems in this area is that we have self-important and yet utterly ignorant blowhards like Charles Windsor (apparently, he is a “Prince” or something. The French had the right idea about what to do with them…) promoting the foolish nonsense of CAM. Aggravating in the extreme.
# DevilsAdvocateon 15 Dec 2008 at 9:44 am
Hear, hear. Standing O.
# Eric Thomsonon 15 Dec 2008 at 9:54 am
Very interesting stuff.
Do med students have to take a statistics course to get the MD? I assume so, which makes the CAM phenomenon even more strange.
Do any mainstream top-tier medical schools include courses or modules on CAM in their curricula? And if so, is it critical or accepting?
# Steven Novellaon 15 Dec 2008 at 11:21 am
Many schools do include CAM (based on the ad populi argument) and they are largely in the hands of proponents. I am currently fighting against his at my own institution. There are a few good programs around the country, but they are the exception.
# Clinton Huxleyon 15 Dec 2008 at 11:43 am
I wonder if those who opt for “alternative medicine” would choose “alternative surgery” if they ever found themselves in an emergency ward….I doubt it.
“Now, Mr Johnson, you have two options. We can stitch your finger back on and use micro-surgery to reconnet the blood vessels and nerves…..OR we could shove your hand in a pile of elephant dung during a full moon and hope your finger grows back….”
Re the schools thing – there are universities in the UK offering degrees in homeopathy and the like (presumably the lower you score in your exam, the higher a degree you get awarded…)
# Skepticoon 15 Dec 2008 at 11:59 am
What if the auto industry promoted “automobile freedom” laws so that consumers could buy any vehicles they wanted, free from any government quality or safety regulation?
Didn’t I read something similar about the need for freedom when designing bridges? Oh yes – Alternative Engineering.
# daedalus2uon 15 Dec 2008 at 1:01 pm
Actually, some types of dung can be very powerful sources of nitric oxide and could well have substantial healing properties. Ancient Egyptian women did use crocodile dung as a pessary. Precisely for what is not clear because there is a hole in the papyrus describing what it does.
Crocodiles are uricotelic organisms, they excrete nitrogenous waste as uric acid. That turns their urine white and semi-solid. In the soil, uric acid is broken down and eventually oxidized to nitrite and nitrate in the process of nitrification. Autotrophic ammonia oxidizing bacteria that generate the NO and nitrite, and my research indicates that the NO and nitrite they produce has beneficial physiological effects.
My own research has indicated that composted manure from another uricotelic organism (chicken) is a very powerful source of NO.
Dung has been used by indigenous peoples in Africa and also in India to treat the umbilical cord of newborns. I presume that this is to prevent tetanus because the Clostridia are exquisitely sensitive to NO and nitrite (that is why meat is cured with nitrite).
Dung may have special healing properties. I don’t think it would substitute for microsurgery, but a surface biofilm of the relevant bacteria might greatly speed healing by preventing infection by heterotrophic bacteria and by increasing perfusion through NO mediated vasodilation. Because any infection by heterotrophic bacteria will cause the release of ammonia (from deaminated amino acids), having endogenous bacteria that convert that ammonia into NO and nitrite at the site of heterotrophic infection might have substantial health benefits.
# misselaineon 15 Dec 2008 at 1:08 pm
This rings so true. I find it odd that my fellow scientist friends give me a hard time for being so involved anti-religion and anti-psuedoscience events. It is almost like they think that I am the crazy, unbalanced person and not the other way around. In regards to CAM, I often hear comments like, “Oh, who cares if it isn’t proven, maybe it will work. Anyways. I know lots of people who swear by (insert CAM here).” I also know professors who aren’t bothered by the fact that creationism may be taught in our schools. They think that it doesn’t matter because they know that they will teach THEIR kids differently, so who cares? I just can’t believe that they are not seeing how all of this is completely eroding the public’s belief in science overall, which of course will effect them. It’s hard enough to get grants as it is now, for goodness sakes! But, when I explain to them the peril of this slippery slope, I often find that they had just never thought about it that way. So, maybe we can wake these people up before it is too late!
# Potter1000on 15 Dec 2008 at 1:14 pm
You’re always good at sounding these battle cries, Dr. N, but we shouldn’t be discouraged by the indications that we’re losing the war. We should expect to be losing the war. With virtually every topic we we are concerned about, we are fighting an uphill battle against an opposition whose rules are looser than ours. It’s almost always easier to win over the public using oversimplified yet vague emotional appeals to ignorance than by using nuanced truth and logic. But science always always marches on, making the world better.
You’re doing a tremendous amount of good with these medical issues and many others. Not only do true-believers encounter your arguments, but those on the fence do as well. And probably most important, the choir you are often preaching to learns from you, and we spread our influence in what little ways we can. We may lack your expertise, but we still have influence. And strangely, many people are much more open to be influenced by non-experts than experts. After all, experts typically are already in the pockets of those in power, as you know.
# DevoutCatalyston 15 Dec 2008 at 2:26 pm
I have one word for you Steven, just one word. Are you listening?
Chiropractic.
Chiropractors have transmogrified themselves from back-cracking simpletons into little Swiss army knives — there are activator techniques for young sophisticate, applied kinesiology if your practice is limited to the super gullible, there’s thermography for cancer screening. Huh? Yeah, chiropractors can offer an alternative to mammography. “Your breasts are in good hands with Chiropractic”.
What separates intelligent man from the carnival act is his use of tools. The stuff of chiropractic is child’s play, but they’re staking their claim to ideas ever further beyond their grasp. Why would anyone entrust cancer screening to a chiropractor?
Was Wilk v. AMA the event that opened the door to much of today’s nonsense? Do you see any of the forthcoming battles against CAM winding up in court?
What’s the overall strategy, the big picture, General?
# epguyon 15 Dec 2008 at 2:50 pm
Dr. N,
Thanks for a great post. These certainly seem like dreary times for our profession.
I am a fellow at a prestigious academic medical center – I guess you could have categorized me as a “shruggee” when I was in medical school / residency. In an exercise as a student, I specifically remember being told that my practice would suffer if we disavowed the (hypothetical) practicing chiropractor. The message was simply that patients were going to get wrapped up in CAM on their own accords, and that it was not our place to impinge upon their “health care freedom”. I responded by adopting the laissez faire attitude you described succinctly above.
It took me several years of practice (and skeptical schooling courtesy of SGU, The Demon-Haunted World, etc) to see the downside of passive acceptance of CAM as just another obstacle in clinical medicine. In addition to the affront to the scientific medicine and hijacking of EBM (of which I consider still myself a practitioner – by the way – ever read the article “Seven alternatives to EBM” in BMJ?), I am finiding the failure to engage the issue downright dangerous and counterproductive! Of the meds I prescribe, drugs with ridiculously complex pharmacology such as warfarin, amiodarone, and digoxin are easily included in the top ten. Add to this list other meds with incompletely understood catabolism – other anti-arrhythmics, immunosuppressants, etc. – and we have to admit that nobody can predict what will happen when you throw some St. John’s or unproven CAM med into the mix. I’ve taken a harder line in my practice, admitting to patients that I can’t vouch for the safety or efficacy of the meds patients are taking if they insist on using herbal supplements.
As far as trying to influence medical education and other physicians – I certainly share in the frustration. As an instructor of clinical epidemiology / EBM to medical students, I’ve had the occasional opportunity to fire a salvo on CAM, at the same time encouraging the application of sound skeptical scientific method. At one point, I distributed the fMRI/PET study of “telepathy” featured some time ago on the NESS; I was pleased when my students, without much encouragement, tore the methods and conclusions limb-from-limb.
The point of all of this is that, yes, I am now in the choir. I wasn’t always. Even though I wasn’t personally shoving Gingko in peoples mouths, the passive acceptance has contributed to the problem. It is now clear to me the basic principles of science upon which medicine is founded can not abide CAM.
# Annieon 15 Dec 2008 at 3:24 pm
I did my nursing graduate work during the days of Martha Rogers holding court at NYU espousing her “theory of unitary man.” Pure bunkum, but she was building a following who then migrated into nursing academia and research in the days when nursing research programs were mostly in their infancy and where other disciplines routinely accused nursing of turf invasion. So the emphasis was on developing new territory. This occurred during the same timeframe as the rollout of DRG’s, prospective payment and managed care/HMOs where the therapeutic physician/patient relationship was being undermined and eroded.
I think these factors coupled with the growing reliance on technology over care, and treatment over health management (un-reimbursed and highly reliant on a trusting relationship) helped to drive people away from the impersonalization and discomfort toward the familiar, immediate and comforting.
I don’t believe that skeptics of CAM are marginalized so much as CAM has invaded and dominated the public media landscape.
My best guess is that CAM will eventually be found wanting through the *demon* lawyers when patients have poor outcomes and lawyers see a class action opportunity. I also am inclined to think that when professionals who provide direct care take back professional autonomy and authority and demand to be reimbursed for establishing and maintaining therapeutic relationships via patient assessment, coaching, and health management, that patients will flock their way.
Actually, they already are flocking – but there isn’t room for them to perch. For example, Maggie Mahar at the Health Beat blog recently chronicled the plight of the newly insured in MA and discovered that they now can’t afford care because their scarce dollars paid for insurance policies which have high deductibles, co-pays and restrictions, and that concomitantly, primary care physicians are swamped and have no room for new patients.
All the pieces must be in place in order for patients to receive care: affordability, accessibility and appropriate.
When any of those is absent or insufficient – in essence, a vacuum state, they will seek out alternatives to fill that vacuum of perceived need. That appears to be what they are doing – in droves.
Excellent post and lots to consider in this complex situation.
# marineron 15 Dec 2008 at 3:31 pm
I was disappointed to read in Parade Magazine yesterday, an article entitled “Alternative Therapies that Really Work,” by Dr. Mark Luponis. The article cherry-picked a few divergent studies to claim that acupuncture “may” work for several unrelated conditions. Alpha error and confirmation bias are probably better explanations for how these results got reported in Luponis’ article than any actual effects of acupuncture on such things as the breech position of fetuses.
A couple of skeptics have already commented on Luponis’s article (
http://www.parade.com/health/2008/12/alternative-therapies-that-work.html ) — anybody else care to add a comment?
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more:
http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=439.