This was written in a blog, somewhere in the Net. But to get people to roll up their sleeves we need to spread the news. I herewith add one more torch in the night of lawslessness and despotism.
Support the fight against IT-Nazi-structures and suppression! If you ever buy books: DO BUY PRINTED PAPER!
As there there are embedded links, and as always: GO TO THE ORIGINAL PAGE! DO READ THE ORIGINAL PAGE!
http://www.bekkelund.net/2012/10/22/outlawed-by-amazon-drm/[*quote*]
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Outlawed by Amazon DRM
22.10.12 • 158 kommentarer
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A couple of days a go, my friend Linn sent me an e-mail, being very frustrated: Amazon just closed her account and wiped her Kindle. Without notice. Without explanation. This is DRM at it’s worst.
Linn travels a lot and therefore has, or should I say had, a lot of books on her Kindle, purchased from Amazon. Suddenly, her Kindle was wiped and her account was closed. Being convinced that something wrong had happened, she sent an e-mail to Amazon, asking for help. This was the answer:
Dear Linn [last name],
My name is Michael Murphy and I represent Executive Customer Relations within Amazon.co.uk. One of our mandates is to address the most acute account and order problems, and in this capacity your account and orders have been brought to my attention.
We have found your account is directly related to another which has been previously closed for abuse of our policies. As such, your Amazon.co.uk account has been closed and any open orders have been cancelled.
Per our Conditions of Use which state in part: Amazon.co.uk and its affiliates reserve the right to refuse service, terminate accounts, remove or edit content, or cancel orders at their sole discretion.
Please know that any attempt to open a new account will meet with the same action.
You may direct any questions to me at resolution-uk@amazon.co.uk.
Thank you for your attention to this email.
Regards
Michael Murphy
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.co.uk
This answer was very confusing. Which account was he talking about? She had never had any other accounts at Amazon.
So, she replied to Murphy’s e-mail:
Dear Michael Murphy,
I am very surprised to read your email. What do you mean by “directly related to another which has been previously closed for abuse of our policies”. I can only remember ever having this one account, and I use it quite regularly to buy books for my Kindle, as you probably can see by my purchase history. How can there suddenly be a problem now? I use amazon.com and not co.uk for my Kindle, does that make any difference?
I sincerely hope you can help me solve this matter, because I would very much like to have my account reopened. And please let me know if there is any action I can take to help.
Best regards,
Linn [last name]
[Linn's phone number]
The answer provided no progress:
Dear Linn [last name],
As previously advised, your Amazon.co.uk account has been closed, as it has come to our attention that this account is related to a previously blocked account. While we are unable to provide detailed information on how we link related accounts, please know that we have reviewed your account on the basis of the information provided and regret to inform you that it will not be reopened.
Please understand that the closure of an account is a permanent action. Any subsequent accounts that are opened will be closed as well. Thank you for your understanding with our decision.
I appreciate this is not the outcome you hoped for and apologise for any disappointment this may cause.
Regards,
Michael Murphy
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.co.uk
Not getting an answer to why the account was closed, she sent another e-mail:
Dear Michael Murphy,
Is it correct that you cannot give me any information about
1. How my account is linked to the blocked account
2. The name/id of the related blocked account
3. What policy that was violated
I have no knowledge about any other account that could be related to mine, and cannot understand how I could have violated your policies in any way.
Br,
Linn [last name]
Unfortunately, the answer was the same:
Dear Linn [last name],
We regret that we have not been able to address your concerns to your satisfaction. Unfortunately, we will not be able to offer any additional insight or action on these matters.
We wish you luck in locating a retailer better able to meet your needs and will not be able to offer any additional insight or action on these matters.
Thank you for your attention to this email.
Regards
Michael Murphy
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.co.uk
Did she violate any terms? Amazon will not tell. Perhaps by accident? Amazon does not care. The conclusion so far is clear: Amazon closed her account, wiped her Kindle and refuses to tell her why. End of discussion.
The worst of DRM
As a long-term writer about technology, DRM, privacy and user rights, this Amazon example shows the very worst of DRM. If the retailer, in this case Amazon, thinks you’re a crook, they will throw you out and take away everything that you bought. And if you disagree, you’re totally outlawed. Not only is your account closed, all your books that you paid for are gone. With DRM, you don’t buy and own books, you merely rent them for as long as the retailer finds it convenient.
Now what?
Linn lives in Norway, far away from Amazon’s jurisdiction. How will she ever find the means to get her books back? By suing a large corporation half-way round the earth?
Linn is outlawed by Amazon.
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158 kommentarer
Yngve I. Levinsen
22. oktober 2012 11.35
Right, so now I will never buy a book from Amazon ever again, thanks for the warning!
“Thank you for your understanding with our decision.”
How provocative is that?? He sounds like a douchebag through and through.
I usually buy epub-books for my Kindle since I have software which removes the DRM from epub but not the Kindle format (or I buy from DRM-free stores). Even though the process is a bit tedious, I am now very happy about my procedures. At least no company can decide that I suddenly should not be allowed to keep my purchased books anymore.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Andrey
22. oktober 2012 16.39
Use Calibre – it is able to convert from Kindle to unprotected mobi/epub/pdf.
Svar på denne kommentaren
appel
22. oktober 2012 18.56
How exactly do you run those epubs? I though the Kindle doesn’t support it?
Svar på denne kommentaren
marrai
22. oktober 2012 19.55
As stated by Orlovsky below, Kindle-DRM isn’t very hard to remove. I guess it’s too late now, though.
Anyhow, I’d suggest she tries to talk to someone else from Amazon, not Mr. Murphy again.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Sungame
22. oktober 2012 11.40
This is horrible, even by Amazon’s standards.
Erasing all the content a customer has legally bought and paid for because of an alleged “abuse” of Amazon’s draconian policies is bad enough. However, as one who have followed Amazon closely since the international release of the Kindle, I have always known that this inevitably would happen to one or more Norwegian customers. Yes, it is a blatant and terrible example of a giant corporation abusing its nearly unlimited market power, but it is hardly surprising.
What is a bit surprising, after all, is that Amazon does not even pretend to have a good reason for their actions, and seems totally uninterested in solving the problem and conflict, or even informing the customer of how this might have been avoided.
I have always disliked the way Amazon does business, and how they abuse their market power. However, the alternatives are not very good. This fall, I almost caved in and put a Kindle on my wish list. However, this blog entry reminded me of why I didn’t buy one in the first place. Thanks for putting me back on the straight and narrow!
Svar på denne kommentaren
Kjetil Kjernsmo
22. oktober 2012 11.42
Dette høres ut som en sak for Forbrukerombudet. Jeg har sendt en sint mail til Amazon også.
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james smith
22. oktober 2012 11.56
Go to
http://legalreads.com/ and download for free
Svar på denne kommentaren
Eirik Newth
22. oktober 2012 12.06
Av og til hater jeg å få rett. Har i årevis skrevet og blogget om at DRM i praksis forvandler det kundene tror er kjøp til leiekontrakter. Her ser vi den ytterste konsekvensen av leiesystemet, og fordi kjøpet er gjort i USA av en norsk kunde er det på toppen av det hele intet Forbrukerrådet kan gjøre (i den grad de takler slike teknologisaker, noe min erfaring er at de ikke alltid gjør).
Som kunder blir vi dermed ganske forsvarsløse om vi velger å holde oss til lovens bokstav. Når slike saker dukker opp er det ikke rart at brukere fristes til å laste ned programvare som fjerner DRM, og gjør det mulig å lage den sikkerhetskopien av ebøkene som Amazon og andre aktører nekter dem.
Svar på denne kommentaren
kevin
22. oktober 2012 18.35
Lurer på hva amazon ville si om norske myndigheter forbød/blokket dem fra det norske markedet fordi de ikke følger lovene her i landet. plutselig var det 4,7 millioner mindre mulige kunder til amazon.
kan hende det hadde en virkning, for hvor gjør det mest vondt for rikingene, jo i pengepungen.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Phil
22. oktober 2012 12.14
Did she pay by credit card? Perhaps her bank issuing a chargeback will get Amazon’s attention?
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John
22. oktober 2012 12.25
I believe charge back is a peculiarity available only in USA. In Europe I believe it’s not available in most of the countries.
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Matt
22. oktober 2012 12.14
Given that it is Amazon in the UK then Linn could possibly submit a “subject information request” to obtain the information that they hold about her –
http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_the_public/personal_information/how_manage/access_info.aspx .
Under the data protection act, a UK based company must comply with the request within 40 days.
Svar på denne kommentaren
David Kitchen
22. oktober 2012 16.11
Unfortunately, just like UK tax, the UK Data Protection Act does not apply to Amazon.
Amazon.co.uk is operated by Amazon EU SARL and Kindle books are sold by Amazon Media EU SARL both companies are registered in Luxembourg.
As the UK legislation comes from a EU directive similar legislation should be in place, however it will only be available in French and maybe German.
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Simon
22. oktober 2012 16.49
I do hope she does.
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Tim
22. oktober 2012 18.12
She should absolutely do this. Amazon are obliged to provide any data which is related to you; which would have to include any discussion they had had of their account, and any evidence of the link to previous abusive accounts (although they are allowed to blank out personal details of others, which could make this less helpful).
I also suspect that their T&Cs wouldn’t stand up to UK law; I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that UK law is pretty sceptical about terms buried deep in long contracts which attempt to deny one party basic contractual rights. I suspect that any judge would rule a clause which lets the retailer take away the thing you have paid for, without refund, explanation or appeal, an unfair contract term.
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Arne
22. oktober 2012 12.16
Hadde folk funnet seg i slike betingelser hos sin fysiske bokhandler? Mistenker vi deg for brudd på våre salgsbetingelser kommer vi hjem til deg og henter alt du har kjøpt hos oss?
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Sungame
22. oktober 2012 12.30
Neppe. Og her er vi nok ved puddelens kjerne. Amazon har en forretningsmodell som gjør det så enkelt og behagelig å “leie” bøker at de aller fleste lesere er villige til å se gjennom fingrene på de mer betenkelige sidene ved den.
Dessverre forsvinner ikke problemene selv om vi glemmer dem, og, ikke ulikt en puddel, har de en lei tendens til å komme tilbake og bite deg i rumpa når du minst aner det.
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Tormod Guldvog
22. oktober 2012 12.18
Utrolig arrogant og fiendtlig oppførsel fra et selskap som snart har monopol.
Plutselig ble jeg veldig glad for Calibre og diverse plugins til den.
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Alex
22. oktober 2012 12.20
Outrageous, simply outrageous. This is on par with PayPal ordering a buyer to destroy an original violin on the mere suspicion of it being “counterfeited”; in that case, the money were refunded to the buyer, so the honest seller was left both without the goods AND the money.
If there’s any stronger argument in favour of an open body of knowledge (non-DRM) and private money (Bitcoin), I’d like to hear it.
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NickPheas
22. oktober 2012 12.21
This is exactly why my first action on buying an Amazon book is to run it through Calibre to strip out the DRM and convert it to ePub just in case.
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Paul C
22. oktober 2012 16.40
“This is exactly why my first action on buying an Amazon book is to run it through Calibre to strip out the DRM and convert it to ePub just in case.”
thanks for the tip. Just got to work out where the “books” get stored by my Kindle app on my Android tablet.
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lavin
22. oktober 2012 17.58
@nickPheas How pretell do you do that? strip the book that is
Thank you!
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Orlovsky
22. oktober 2012 12.23
Has Linn tried emailing the MD of Amazon directly (cnorth*AT*amazon.com)? I had an awful, albeit less traumatic experience from them recently, and things got resolved quickly after I started prodding that high up in the organisation.
Also – and I’m aware this is very much a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted – there’s a very robust set of python scripts that’ll strip the DRM from purchased Amazon ebooks, which I habitually use for this very reason.
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Robert Rouse
22. oktober 2012 15.16
Likely Linn didn’t download the azw files directly. They were probably only on her kindle. If you never plug in the device to a computer and back up your files manually, they never leave the Kindle.
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Yesbut
22. oktober 2012 12.24
From previous incidents like this, there’s more to this story than this blog post describes. Amazon’s reluctance to go into details is annoying, of course – they’re supposed to be really good with customer care – and may have to do with details that they cannot outright say for fear of litigation.
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Neil
22. oktober 2012 12.37
I’ve read about such horror stories. A little googling will find many more. However, I suggest she persists. Some stories make it beyond the blanket responses and result in a full account reinstatement. Yes even after such negative and closed emails.
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Miha
22. oktober 2012 12.39
Watching the movie Brazil should explain the situation.
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Lucas
22. oktober 2012 12.45
I hate to say it, but I’m not surprised. I still have an ongoing issue with Amazon: they won’t credit two returns to my account. Basically, customer service in a real sense is nonexistent. Amazon is about making money, and anything not directly connected to making money is not prioritised.
Also, the ‘Amazon way of shipping’ is wage slavery:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-laborSvar på denne kommentaren
Stein Vidar Hagfors Haugan
22. oktober 2012 12.46
Ho-ly-crap!
Ok… take deep breaths!
Actually, I think “Michael Murphy” is a bot! Reading the “responses”, there’s *nothing* that indicates anything other than a semi-dumb, pre-programmed “answering machine” that just keeps track of earlier correspondence/personal information and responds given a specific sequence and perhaps a few keywords in the complaint emails.
And… and… this *ENCOURAGES* piracy! Jeeeez! I’m normally thankful whenever I can *buy* electronic versions of texts, since it’s much more convenient, *AND* I believe in paying authors for their work. But if buying it means that Amazon can *steal* the freakin’ stuff back, that’s not a deal I want to make!
If I can grab it from somewhere else, without paying, with *minimal* risk of being sued for a significant amount of money (as long as I don’t redistribute), maybe I should?
I could always use PayPal or something to donate money directly to the author, with a message saying that “I think you’re a great author, I’ve read your bok Xxxxx and really liked it. Great work! However, I decided not to purchase it b/c of Amazon’s crappy policies. I strongly urge you to choose a better, fairer publishing route” [You guys out there - fill in with a better way of doing it, I'm clueless in this field].
And: Some form of collective protest would probably have the biggest impact. Like a petition… Oh, hold on, I know – money speaks. Not least stock prices. Listen to this:
Make the story “go viral” on all the social media out there, get people (all over the world) to sign up to a petition that Amazon must promise (in their Conditions for Use):
a) disclosure of all information causing such a cancellation,
b) allow counter-evidence/a rebuttal to be presented, and
c) allow a review of the counter-evidence/rebuttal, and, not least:
d) in case the decision to close is upheld, give a breakdown of the reasoning.
Then:
IF THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED WITHIN <such-and-such date, or perhaps "at a time to be decided by the action committee responsible for this petition", I WILL CLOSE MY AMAZON ACCOUNT IN PROTEST AGAINST YOUR UNFAIR PRACTICES AND RULES REGARDING ACCOUNT CLOSURES".
Maybe pick a date right around a stockholder meeting
If we get a significant number of people (a few hundred thousand, at least), the pure *existence* of such a petition might seriously hurt their *stock price*. Which presumably will hurt executives' bonuses. And *that* should make them listen.
If we don't succeed the first time – repeat in one year's time. To get those that didn't get it last time. In the mean time, those that closed their accounts in protest should sign up again. To make the numbers bigger, and just to prove the point about how many customers they *do not* have, simply due to a stupid DRM policy that is for sure *marginal* in its impact on their bottom line. Especially regarding closures that cannot actually be substantiated!
If it *does* succeed, we could repeat it with other "sanity-and-fairness-violating DRM companies".
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Erik
22. oktober 2012 12.53
I can just say that im really sorry about what happened to you and your account.
Me myself have only once been buying ebooks from amazon, and as soon as i got it i removed the drm and made a no-drm version, just to make sure i still had it.
If you provide a list of missing books, The pirate bay and Isohunt are more then willingly able to return your rightful books to you, free of charge and in non-drm versions.
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Mike Scott
22. oktober 2012 13.03
If Linn is a UK resident, she can sue Amazon easily in the small claims court. If she’s a Norwegian resident, then she’s broken the terms & conditions merely by purchasing books — the UK Kindle store is for UK residents only. — and it’s therefore hardly surprising that her account has been terminated. Don’t blame Amazon for this — the publishers won’t allow them to sell UK books to Norwegians. And don’t really even blame the publishers — authors sell limited regional rights to the publishers because they make more money that way. Blame the governments that allow copyright licences to be packaged up in this anti-competitive and anti-consumer way.
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blazicekj
22. oktober 2012 13.11
I would suggest, if there is a way, trying to reach someone in charge directly. Amazon support centre is located somewhere in india as far as I know. You seem to have talked with someone in a bit higher position than those guys I have dealt with, but still. These people have their guides and they will stick to them no matter what happens. In some cases the outcome is pretty good for you, but I have had once an absolutely ridiculous conversation of my own with them. They kept repeating the same message over and over. First message was one version. Next message, from another support guy was a little different, third was the same as the first. After abou 20 of these, I have sent them mail, which contained about 15 of their replies, which were the same 2 over and over. They sent me, once again, one of those two. These people are generally in a position, where they cannot afford to do anything else than follow their guide, otherwise they can end up without a job.
Therefore, I would suggest you try to find a mail address of someone with highest rank on the company ladder you can and bombard them with mails. Try to be polite, but tell them you have no problem filling out subject information request as someone here suggested and / or legal action against them. Point them to this article. Point them to Reddit link which is as of now making this post very popular. I for one will never buy another Kindle book from Amazon as well after reading this. I have to use them for a few other things, but not that.
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Mika
22. oktober 2012 13.18
Outragous! I’m seriously considering my amazon purchases now.
Out of curiosity, how do you use Calibre or the said python scripts with Amazon bought ebooks? I mean, how do I access the book file, since I do most of my purchases directly from my Kindle or from iPad using the Kindle app?
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Dipole
22. oktober 2012 13.28
Wow glad to hear. Won’t be buying from them ever again. That is really unfortunate for the lady.
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Fjompo
22. oktober 2012 13.38
“Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything truly wrong, he was arrested.”
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Peter Sunde
22. oktober 2012 14.00
For tre år siden så tok Amazon bort noen bøker fra brukeres Kindle – bøker som de ikke hadde hatt tillatelse å selge. En av dem: 1984 av George Orwell. Selvfølgelig blev det en stor diskussjon om Amazon sine muligheter å slette bøker fra Kindles, og da lovet Amazon å aldri bruke den funksjonen igjen..!
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html?_r=0http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/18/amazon_removes_1984_from_kindle/Sitat:
“Amazon effectively acknowledged that the deletions were a bad idea. “We are changing our systems so that in the future we will not remove books from customers’ devices in these circumstances,” Mr. Herdener said.”
Kanskje er noe som Linn burde snakke med Amazon om..
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Carl-Fredrik Borchgrevink-Lund
22. oktober 2012 14.11
Morn Bekkelund. Bra nettsted. Har du noen tanker om hva som kan ha skjedd i Linns tilfelle hvis hennes beskrivelse er rett?
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Trond
22. oktober 2012 14.13
Outrageous. I have sent e-mail to amazon, asking for a comment on this.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Elessar
22. oktober 2012 14.22
Honestly, I would suggest that she turns to counterfaiting. She has all moral right to get what she paid for, and if there is no legal mean to do so, then the law is immoral and must not be obeyed to. Also, since counterfaiting does not suffer from these defects, she would never encounter the same problem.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Andrew
22. oktober 2012 14.23
Isn’t it possible that stripping DRM from books purchased from Amazon is exactly the sort of thing which Amazon might classify as contravening their policies?
I’m not trying to defend this increasingly arrogant (and, based on the dire delivery services they use in the UK, increasingly incompetent) company but I would be interested to know the answer to that question. Can Amazon detect books on Kindles which have had DRM removed and, if they can and do, wouldn’t that be sufficient cause to terminate an account?
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Asgeir
22. oktober 2012 14.27
This is outrageous to say the least!
I’m quite baffled by the fact that they won’t even tell her what on earth she did to incur this kind of treatment. They don’t cite any rules or reasons other than some linking of accounts that doesn’t make sense…
And the robotic like replies while requesting information are just plain insulting.
This has to be spread around, Amazon shouldn’t get away with this practice.
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SwissTengu
22. oktober 2012 14.35
Very happy to NOT use amazon services for myself. I’m sometimes thinking “hey, would be great to have my books on some electronic devices for travel”. Yes, but no. Current (mainstream) services have DRM, doubtful policies, and are working as black boxes.
I haven’t bought any books from amazon for, say, 6 months. During this time, the small bookstore near my home is really happy, having a book eater like me (for now, about 5 books (mid-sized, about 700 pages) each 2 weeks).
Amazon should be great. But because of the stupidity of some people (most of them related to editors), it is not great. It’s a jail, a nice one I think, but still a jail.
Like iTunes services : your account may be blocked without any informations, just “we suspected that…” and so long.
After reading such news, can we still wonder why people doesn’t buy things, and prefer to go on piratebay or other website like this?
DRM are a pain in the a**, that’s all. For now, Music has understood it. Books should follow, and, maybe, Movies. But I’m not sure about the latter. Neither for the first, to be honest. They screw us, saying “we have to live” and taking all our money for nothing. They are even talking our Culture away.
Shame on the System, not only on Amazon.
T.
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Apreche
22. oktober 2012 14.36
This is why I have a Kindle, but I have never bought even one DRM eBook from Amazon. All the ebooks I read are DRM-free.
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Addliss
22. oktober 2012 14.53
I can really understand how rude these mails by Amazon might read, but maybe I can provide some help:
Amazon links accounts by
- used e-mail address
- used shipping addresses
- used billing addresses
- used credit cards/banking accounts
Don’t ask, how I know that, I just know it. There might be some other parameters, but these are the strongest ones. So if another customer used Linn’s credit card or e-mail address, her shipping address or else and there has been a case of fraud, Amazon takes the link to Linn’s account and shuts both down.
Now here meet two different juristical principles: Linn has the right to know why her account has been closed. But with respect to privacy Amazon is NOT allowed to tell her about another person being a fraud case.
This is what could have happened here. I never understood why Amazon isn’t allowed to tell these policies to their customers so they can at least do some research (one of their relatives or friends might have used their address or something like that), but that’s how they handle it.
So: Linn should make sure if she can remember anyone using one of the data above that she has also used. Maybe someone used her credit card or address or she once used another credit card from someone, too!? If she can’t remember, she has to go to the police and let them investigate. Amazon must give all information to the police. It’s quite a workaround, but I see no other way.
I hope I could help a bit.
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Stein-Erik Dahle
22. oktober 2012 15.08
Takk for advarselen! Denne føyer seg fint inn blant tilsvarende hendelser jeg har lest om tidligere, og viser svært tydelig hvor maktesløse vi kunder er overfor Amazon og lignende nettbaserte butikker. Det blir bare papirbøker, om noe i det hele tatt noe fra Amazon heretter.
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William
22. oktober 2012 15.08
It may be possible for a Norwegian resident to take amazon.co.uk to the small claims court in order to get a refund (which would presumably be for the device and any e-books) because Norway is a European Union country. I’m not sure what the gory details of that process would be – if you would have to make the small claim for the local council where amazon.co.uk’s offices are near or if the claim could be started in Norway. (It would be possible for a UK resident to do this in their own city although they may have to travel to the city of the entity they were suing if it actually went to court, which does not necessarily happen with a claim through the small claims court.)
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Supermannen
22. oktober 2012 15.09
And this is why piracy exists.
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paul sorene
22. oktober 2012 15.12
Can i publish this on anorak.co.uk please?
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hvaheterdu
22. oktober 2012 15.15
Not clear: was the entire Kindle wiped, or only the books sold by Amazon in their original DRM form?
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Sven
22. oktober 2012 15.30
Hi,
this remembered me of a story which happened a while back. Same story (no kindle, tough). The account was closed and deleted and all they said was “because it was linked to another $bad account”. After some research and stuff they found the link:
The user sent a gift(!) to someone a few month back. The receiver was the “bad boy” for amazon and got his account closed, and voila, the other one also.
Maybe thats it?
Best wishes,
Sven
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nign
22. oktober 2012 15.34
Random person here. I someone came across a friend posting link to your article.
I kind of think it might help if your friend bring the issue to the attention of Amazon US. My past experience was that Amazon UK and US have independent customer service departments, and the service quality of the US team vastly surpassed that of the UK team — note that I used the past tense, because I haven’t shopped at the UK store for 8+ years due to some extremely lousy customer service experience, where the service representative acted exactly like the one in your friend’s case and kept parroting the same non-answer over and over, while my experiences with the US store have always been great CS-wise. Their customer service representatives generally strive to exceed your wildest expectations to be helpful.
Best luck to your friend and here’s hoping that they won’t simply throw the case report back and ask your friend to keep trying with the UK side.
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Janus
22. oktober 2012 15.34
Don’t think Amazon would be too pleased with a “boycott Amazon” campaign during the Christmas run-up.
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Jessica
22. oktober 2012 15.38
Most likely it’s a drm issue with using Amazon.com in Europe instead of Amazon.uk. The owner even said that she was unaware she had a .uk account, but yes, Amazon’s customer service in this regard was awful. I have owned 2 kindles and my fire was replaced without a question by customer support the 5th month i owned it and it software locked up. One bad instance should not deter you without knowing the full story.
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Michael
22. oktober 2012 15.38
This is outrageous. I do have some minor thoughts to add — not in justification, but in partial explanation.
First, this is not new. Amazon has done this before.
Second the computer has found some link — who knows what. It could be someone at the same address with a bad account. Someone (A family member?) using the same credit card. Or perhaps the kindle itself is used and was previously registered to someone else.
Why Amazon will not release information about the linkage is logical, but it really is convoluted. They take the position, that because of privacy concerns they are not allowed to talk with anyone other than the account holder about their account. Therefore, let’s say the offending account was your brother. They can’t tell you that your brother has done wrong, and what he has done. Of course this means that if you really are ‘guilty’ you already know why you were blocked, and you already have access to the details. however if you are innocent it’s impossible to prove Amazon wrong since they will not tell you what is wrong.
Finally, it seems to me that she should have a claim against Amazon for the cost of the Kindle and any books she purchased since it/they will no longer work based on Amazon’s decisions.
If she is really a glutton for punishment, there are ways around this do future purchases. You can’t undo anything that has already been done. You will need a new address, credit card number, and potentially name to open a new account on a new kindle. Or open it on a kindle for pc, strip DRM and move the books to the old kindle. You might accomplish this through the help of friends or relatives; through the use of amazon gift cards instead of credit cards, and through other similar tactics. Seems like a lot of pain to do business with someone who doesn’t want to support you.
Finally, this does seem shady on amazons part. If I was comfortable that I was really clean, I wouldn’t be afraid to ask for government assistance. Here in the US it would involve some combination of contacting the state Attorney General’s office. A state office of consumer affairs. Or since this would be an international organization, I wouldn’t be afraid to involve my congressional representatives
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XenForo
22. oktober 2012 15.44
This is why the first thing I do with any device like Phones, iPads, Kindles is to jailbreak/root and run custom software that would prevent this sort of thing.
Not surprising coming from amazon, I’ve had a similar experience with them, and they won’t reveal any information they have short of taking them to court.
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Jonny
22. oktober 2012 15.45
This reminds me very much about how paypal threats their customers as well.
Disgusting when corporations grow this big that they don’t even have to care about their customers.
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Justin
22. oktober 2012 15.47
I have heard in the past that crap like this can happen when/if you use a public terminal and log in to your account. If someone else used the public terminal and that user was malicious and got their account banned, then you use the same terminal and login in Amazon, Ebay, Google, PayPal, etc. could end up banning you because they associate the IP used by the banned account with your account too.
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Jens Guld
22. oktober 2012 15.49
Only buy DRMed books if you can deDRM them.
Copy the book from the Kindle to the computer.
Then use a program like Kindle DRM Removal to civilize the text.
Then use Calibre to convert the MOBI file to an EPUB version of the text (Calibre is free but they like donations, please donate).
Then make at least one backup of the MOBI and EPUB versions and store them safely.
I think that Linn can find and download the texts from The Pirate Bay and other such places without breaking the law.
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Martin Campbell
22. oktober 2012 15.52
Does anyone know if it is legal, under articles 5 and 6 of European Directive 2009/24/EC or otherwise, to remove DRM for the purpose of backup or interoperability?
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32009L0024:EN:NOTSvar på denne kommentaren
Albatross
22. oktober 2012 15.54
Any organization that says “We already have too many customers, so get lost, we don’t give a damn about you” is not long for this world, no matter how big they think they are at the moment.
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Daniel
22. oktober 2012 15.58
Jag gick just och funderade på att köpa en Kindle men efter att ha läst detta tänkte jag om. Skrev till deras kundsupport och berättade det dessutom.
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Tren
22. oktober 2012 15.58
Aren’t there any consumer protection agencies in Norway that can handle this and force Amazon to comply to answers?
This abuse is criminal and should be treated as such. Some companies just really need a permaban threat for these kind of transgressions.
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Varun
22. oktober 2012 16.06
Have tweeted about its –
https://twitter.com/varunvnair/status/260380949009801216Hopefully if enough Amazon users do this it will get them to give a proper reply instead of nonsense.
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Robert (Jamie) Munro
22. oktober 2012 16.12
Try phoning your credit card company and have them reverse all the payments to Amazon in relation to your kindle and the books you have purchased. It’s called a “chargeback”.
It might be better to tell Amazon that you are going to to this, before you actually do, to give them a final chance to sort it out.
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Jan
22. oktober 2012 16.18
Har også sendt mail til Amazon angående dette, og oppfordrer alle andre til å gjøre det samme.
Det kommer sikkert søksmål rundt dette etter hvert. I mellomtiden MÅ alle som kjøper digitalt innhold lære seg hvordan de fjerner DRM-beskyttelsen og tar sikkerhetskopi av innholdet.
- Jan
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Jan Andersen
22. oktober 2012 16.21
Og det er derfor jeg ikke køber DRM-krøblede bøger.
Indtil videre har jeg bara købt e-bøger hos Baen Books og Fictionwise. Rimelige priser og ingen DRM.
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Ben Davis
22. oktober 2012 16.24
She should peruse them under the freedom of information act
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Alex
22. oktober 2012 16.26
I think it might help if the mass media is contacted about this, maybe an ambitious reporter will want to bring the story out. It is news that can up a newspapers ratings. “Big corporation deleting bought content at whim”. Amazon won’t like this kind of attention and might fix the problem. Maybe sending them an email about approaching the media might suffice in them fixing the promblem. Just don’t let it be.
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John
22. oktober 2012 16.30
I have gone through the Amazon.com Terms and Conditions / Conditions of Use, and I cannot see anything that jumps out as being a problem for Linn – with it being the US site, I thought there might be a clause about using that site instead of the .co.uk site, but nothing.
If an email to cnorth does not produce anything, then Amazon’s dispute resolution process is a fairly standard arbitration setup, as detailed in their Conditions OF Use document:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=hp_200905880_conditions?nodeId=508088The relevant section on arbitration is about two-thirds of the way down the page.
I have been a regular orderer from Amazon for quite a few years, but stories like this one have made me willing to spend a bit more money and a bit more time finding alternative suppliers for the stuff I would otherwise buy from this bunch.
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Mike
22. oktober 2012 16.30
If they don’t want him as a customer, fine, but then they shouldn’t want his money either & should issue a refund for all the content that has been removed from his Kindle.
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Elessar
22. oktober 2012 16.31
Honestly, I think she should consider counterfaiting these books. If the law provides no way for her to get what she paid for, then the law is immoral and should not be obeyed.
She should also consider acquiring books at other bookstores than Amazon, but if they fail to provide her with what she wants, counterfaiting will certainly, because it is done by user, for users, without all this commercial antifeatures.
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Rod Younger
22. oktober 2012 16.32
Amazon are not as consumer friendly as some people think and I have written to the EU competition authorities about some of their behaviour but because they are percieved as being a consumer champion no one will take action against them regarding some of their “policies”, e.g. they will not allow any third parties to put DRM on Kindle ebooks, they will not allow authors who publish via Kindle to sell their books cheaper with any other retailers, they practice predatory pricing to undermine other bookshops (they can afford to). I have just posted this re how authors “fall into the Amazon fly trap”
http://books4spain.com/blog/how-authors-fall-into-the-amazon-fly-trap/Svar på denne kommentaren
Me
22. oktober 2012 16.37
If it were me, I’d demand that Amazon explain the grounds for the termination of services. Whether or not they do though, I’m no lawyer, butI’m betting a friendly little letter from a UK-based legal team should get their attention, especially if it’s directed or CC’d to the evasive Mr. Murphy. Even “renters” have contractual rights, and Amazon should be required to prove that the individual in question has violated the terms.
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Bjatte
22. oktober 2012 16.38
And you has been boingboinged! Grats
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Olle
22. oktober 2012 16.41
Hmmm…. This makes me seriously reconsider my usage of Amazon. Their offering seemed like a really good one until now..
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Martin
22. oktober 2012 16.42
Siden det er Amazon UK som svarer, så bør det være en grei start å starte en sak her
http://www.forbrukereuropa.no/index.php/no/Svar på denne kommentaren
Simon
22. oktober 2012 16.47
I wrote about the possibility of this happening within my Masters dissertation on the dangers of the information age – its scary to see something I believed to be a dystopian prediction come to be something very real and scary.
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Kjetil Ree
22. oktober 2012 16.53
Dette er en skandaløs måte å behandle kundene sine på. Jeg tror jeg skal “stemme med lommeboka” og slutte å kjøpe leie Kindle-bøker.
Jeg skal også maile Amazon og fortelle dem dette. Ikke det at jeg tror at de bryr seg men…
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Joris Dirks
22. oktober 2012 16.58
Well, at least they are almost honest about not caring about the customer.
It makes me wonder if I should continue buying physical items from them as well, seeing as I don’t have time to read their terrible ToS and can’t just trust them to be reasonable either.
I do wonder how many people have had this happen to them without being known to the public.
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Brett Stevens
22. oktober 2012 17.01
There are three issues here:
(1) Companies using DRM or other means have control over you. This includes the example someone else mentioned of eBay insisting that a customer smash a violin to ensure that it was lost in shipping.
(2) The people applying these policies tend to be drones, not geniuses. This is because if they hired PhDs, the cost to Amazon would be much higher and the PhDs would get bored and kill people.
(3) Apparently, these policies are needed because there is constant abuse of these services, since a high proportion of our modern populations are scam artists or criminals.
Regarding DRM, I never buy products which are controlled by a single company. Although I own a Kindle, I use it for free texts from the public domain only, and promotional items sent by authors who want reviews of their books. I do not trust DRM which relies on a single company to administer it, because if that company goes bankrupt, away go my books or music.
As far as the fairness of these policies go, I think it’s ridiculous to expect companies to stop abuse. Instead, they should use profiling and past history to assess the risk a user poses, and charge them more if they’re higher risk. This is similar to how banks write loans. That policy change gets us around the lack of PhDs to fairly administrate Terms of Service (TOS) issues.
You’ll have to find your own solutions to the high number of criminals. I suppose resettling them on floating raft-cities where drugs are legal and encouraged is not an option.
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manu
22. oktober 2012 17.07
The terms and conditions of Amazon are extremly abusive and should not be legal (maybe they aren’t). Amazon terminating an account from today onwards would be their right, even though quite dirty. Retroactively terminating products that have been previously purchased and paid for is completely and insanely wrong.
It’s the same thing if you had an issue at an Ikea (payment, making a scene, etc) and they not only throw you out the store and refuse a sale, but they also go to your home and sieze any furniture you’ve ever bought from them.
Richard Stallman has previously warned about this and too many take these matters way too lightly, or even think he’s crazy… .. . untill this sort of thing inevitable happens.
links:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/the-danger-of-ebooks.htmlhttp://stallman.org/amazon.htmlEven if they finish by admitting they made a mistake and refund/restore/etc, you know they still can technically do this. And they will do this again to others, among the others many won’t have blog posts about their case that pop up on the front page of Reddit…
Your friend should request they at least refund her for the products they denied her purchases, indluding the device.
Regardless, good luck with everything.
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Dexter
22. oktober 2012 17.08
Wow – thanks for the warning.
I shall break it my my wife that she wont be getting the kindle for Christmas. Can’t take that kind of chance.
Good luck getting it sorted
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Bill
22. oktober 2012 17.10
Seems very simular to communications I received when setting up an Amazon Payments account. Within 1 day of setting up the account I get the following email out of the blue:
Hello from Amazon Payments.
This message is to let you know that we have blocked your Amazon Payments account and canceled any pending transactions.
We took this action because it has come to our attention that your Amazon Payments transaction(s) may be in violation of our Acceptable Use Policy and your Agreement with Amazon Payments, both of which prohibit the use of our payment service for any items, materials, or services that we have determined to be illegal or inappropriate.
To review our Acceptable Use Policy, please visit:
Amazon Payments > User Agreement/Policies > Acceptable Use Policy
In accordance with the terms of your agreement, Amazon Services, Inc., hereby terminates the term of the agreement effective immediately.
Any remaining funds are being reserved in your Payments Account and may be held for 180 days from the date your account was blocked. After 180 days or the completion of all pending investigations, the funds, minus any claims or chargebacks, will be made available for withdrawal. If you have further questions about your funds please write to amazonpayments-investigate@amazon.com.
While we appreciate your interest, the closure of an account is a permanent action. Any subsequent accounts that are opened will be closed as well. Please note that we take such actions for the protection of all Amazon Payments participants.
Regards,
Seller Performance Team
Amazon Payments
http://payments.amazon.com—
So I say “What is this about? How did we violate any Acceptable Use Policy? We haven’t even done anything yet”
I then get this response:
Hello from Amazon Payments.
Thank you for writing. We have considered your request for reinstatement. Upon careful consideration, we have decided your account will remain blocked.
Any remaining funds are being reserved in your Payments Account and may be held for 180 days from the date your account was blocked. After 180 days or the completion of all pending investigations, the funds, minus any claims or chargebacks, will be made available for withdrawal. If you have further questions about your funds please write to amazonpayments-investigate@amazon.com.
While we appreciate your interest, the closure of an account is a permanent action. Any subsequent accounts that are opened will be closed as well. Please note that we take such actions for the protection of all Amazon Payments participants.
Regards, Seller Performance Team Amazon Payments
http://payments.amazon.com—
So I then reply “This is crazy, I guess we’ll just use PayPal” and then a few days later we get the following:
Hello from Amazon Payments.
Thank you for writing regarding your account.
We have reviewed this situation, and decided to reactivate your account. You are now able to use the Amazon Payments service.
Regards,
Seller Performance Team
Amazon Payments
http://payments.amazon.com—
Needless to say, we’re not using Amazon anytime soon.
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Zacharias Fuchs
22. oktober 2012 17.10
This is the reason, why I don’t like DRM. You don’t purchase an eBook, you purchase the right to read it, until this right is revoked. I hope that Linn will get her account reactivated.
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Peyote Short
22. oktober 2012 17.22
Isn’t this kind of DRM abuse illegal in Norway?
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James
22. oktober 2012 17.24
Amazin is a ripe picking ground for fraud and identity theft. 18 months ago a fraudster set up an account using my credit card details and a slightly incorrect address plus incorrect date if birth. Amazon did not catch the duplicate card (PayPal does!). I did get my money back from thr bank BUT no satisfaction from Amazon. They are arrogant because of their size.
But I wonder if someone had attempted to set up a fraudulent account in Linns name. This in no way excuses the arrogant and stupid way in which Amazon dealt with her. Convicted with no right of reply, apparently.
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ianf
22. oktober 2012 17.25
Instead of ending on an “Now what?” note,
please provide clearcut instructions on how
to avoid similar fate to Linn’s for those of us
not as veiled in the art of “robust python
scripting to remove Amazon DRM” as some
of the above commenters.
Step #1 seems to be to download bought/
leased content primarily (or in tandem) to the
desktop, where the DRM may be stripped. Thus
the hardware-Kindle version be used for reading
on the go, and the DRM-less one to add to any
future new hardware or software reader.
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LN
22. oktober 2012 17.29
That’s a really disappointing outcome for you friend Linn.
If I was to speculate as to why Amazon couldn’t discuss which other account was linked to Linn’s account, it probably because of the Data Protection Act. They would not be able to confirm which account violated their terms without that account holder’s expressed permission.
One other thing that is quite peculiar is that if Linn is based in Norway, then why is she using an Amazon.co.uk account to purchase Kindle titles? Any account holder who’s resident outside of the UK, would be forced to use the Amazon.com kindle store. I wonder if this has anything to do with her problems?
That said though, this kind of action is very unusal from Amazon and in my experience those measures would only have been implemented if they had pretty solid proof of a widespread fraud being committed.
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Bjørn Jacobsen
22. oktober 2012 17.30
never had any problems at all with Amazon, neither .com or .co.uk.
they always replied, friendly and solved any customer service matter with me, super fast.
thou, I always only by hardware books and objects.
not kindle books.
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Passing by
22. oktober 2012 17.31
Thanks for sharing this story.
Amazon is “paypaling” their loyal and paying customers. DRM always screws the honest paying people, never the ones that share without compensating the creators.
Backup your Kindle ebooks ASAP add do so with every book you buy. And email that C. North person someone referred to. Public customer fury and outcry usually works in these situations.
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Oi Empresa
22. oktober 2012 17.46
This is a nightmare story.
I hope this story spread virally and Amazon take due measures.
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Deb Kinnard
22. oktober 2012 17.51
If she bought one of mine, I will personally send her a DRM free .pdf file to make up for this action on Amazon’s part. I find it unconscionable.
I do hope they sent her a full refund?
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hg
22. oktober 2012 17.52
I would happily purchase and mail this person physical copies of some of the lost books. This is atrocious theft.
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Per
22. oktober 2012 17.53
Boycott Amazon! Their actions are ridiculous.
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Documentally
22. oktober 2012 17.54
I was on the fence about what new ereader will upgrade my kindle. I see now that it will be anything but Amazon. I already use calibre to store my books and highly recommend anyone who wants control over their book collection does the same.
There are also some handy free tools here..
http://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/Svar på denne kommentaren
Terje
22. oktober 2012 17.58
http://www.digi.no/904658/hun-ble-kastet-ut-av-amazonSvar på denne kommentaren
Sverre Tveit
22. oktober 2012 17.59
Hi Martin. I just posted the below quote and the link to your blog on the Amazon facebook page (9am California time, October 23nd)). I bet they won’t let it be posted, but it’s worth a try.
http://www.facebook.com/Amazon?ref=ts&fref=tsBest,
Sverre
Dear Amazon,
As a true fan of both Kindle and your online store I urge you to go through this case brought to our attention by Martin Bekkelund (a friend of a friend). If you don’t act on this I’m afraid many will join me in bringing more peoples’ attention to how Amazon allegedly violates any common and moral sense with referral to contract paragraphs that probably would be illegal in Norway and many other European countries. I’m asking you – is this way of threating customers something you want to be associated with? If so, I think your 13 some million “friends” on Facebook would like to know.
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Chris Sherlock
22. oktober 2012 18.00
The thought does cross my mind that Amazon won’t tell Linn about the other account that caused her to be banned due to a privacy issue, whereby they would be violating privacy laws if they disclosed the other account.
So… I’m thinking that that it would be pretty awesome if Lin could get Amazon to try to stop information that would prove that her account is linked to another account by arguing that it would infringe a completely different person’s privacy if it disclosed any information about the linked account that caused the original notification.
Worth a shot anyway.
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Kelshir
22. oktober 2012 18.00
I have dealt with Amazon custumer service before and to be honest I think she is full of it and trying the whole “deny deny deny” routine.
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matus
22. oktober 2012 18.06
Exactly the same happened to me with Google and their Google adwords. We are hopeless against these companies. It is so stupid and unfair…you feel like a criminal even though the cheating is the last thing you would do.
they wont tell u what u have done, they just erase you. thats it. at the end of the mail they should say “Go fu*k yourself”.
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anon
22. oktober 2012 18.09
This is why you should only buy paper books. You can do as you will once you have them. Electronic books will always be subject to malfeasance from corporate owners regardless of the format. Paper books for life.
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Matt W.
22. oktober 2012 18.17
In an email I sent to amazon.
Hello there. I’m a resident in California and have just purchased a Kindle and intended to purchase online books from you. I have purchased other items from your company in the past.
It has come to my attention that you have recently been unjust with a former loyal customer of yours. Please see the link below:
http://www.bekkelund.net/2012/10/22/outlawed-by-amazon-drm/ This is horrible for your company to treat someone like this. I want you to know that I intend to go elsewhere for such purchases before I become a victim of your harsh and unjust decisions.
Be it known that I have also shared this with my friends, co-workers, and family members so that they too will not purchase from you.
Have a good day.
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Malcolm
22. oktober 2012 18.17
Any European contracts are in fact with the Luxembourg entity of Amazon so different rules apply in terms if data disclosure even though its in the EU. There is an interesting amount of negative press building against Amazon in particular its monopolistic behaviour in the eBook market. It pays no tax in the UK. Even manages to pay lower rates of VAT
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Nerys
22. oktober 2012 18.19
If its within your means I would definately contact a gov representative or a lawyer. if for no other reason than to force them to show why they did this.
I have a kindle and love my kindle dx byt I don’t like their DRM and their business practices. SO I bought it used (nothing goes to amazon) and I NEVER buy DRM ebooks and you must keep the 3G connection “OFF” (or wifi) since they (as she found out) can remotely erase your kindle INCLUDING non DRM books acquired elsewhere.
this is power they SHOULD NOT HAVE. period.
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Fred
22. oktober 2012 18.20
There is something to be said for piracy after all.
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André
22. oktober 2012 18.21
As an author and publisher, I can only express my inexpressible outrage at this! Naturally I also have books on Kindle, but I’d rather hack off my hands than locking them into amazon’s draconian DRM. Nevertheless, without some technical knowledge (copying and doing backups of amazon non-drm purchases) many people will never even know what hit them until Amazon pulls a strange one like in the above example. The future IMHO is in ideas like the Humble Bundle (buy once, get 3 versions PDF, epub, mobi drm-free) but as long as amazon remains the #1 marketplace for ebooks it’ll take some time before people appreciate the indie approach. Stories like the above, however negative they seem, might be a helpful push in the right direction, though, simply by realizing the state we’re in at the moment.
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E.B.
22. oktober 2012 18.26
This is exactly what happened to me. A few years ago I received a free voucher to get a song, which you usually had to buy. I think it was musicload.de. I never bought any additional songs, because I don’t like DRM protected stuff. A few years later I bought a new PC and the license didn’t work anymore. Logging in to their site I could get a new license. Now another few years later, new computer again, same problem. But now their website didn’t offer new license. I wrote them and CEO responded: “we offer renewing licenses for three years, although our terms would only require one year. No exceptions.” So this means I should store my old PC just to play a single song. Or treat this as renting for one year. Luckily I never trusted DRM and I have the whole CD as hardware item.
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webwrights
22. oktober 2012 18.26
I am SO glad that I didn’t buy a Kindle. The Sony Reader is better in every way. Smaller, lighter and easier to use; it is a delight. Highly recommended. This wretched story shows why it is advisable to keep suppliers as suppliers only, and not allow them to take control of your life or (what you think are) your possessions.
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Heather
22. oktober 2012 18.28
I have had issues with Amazon for the last year. One problem with them is that some of their policies are nearly impossible to find. I showed a customer service rep how it is possible to read all of the terms of service that are linked to purchasing gift cards and still not find that gift cards cannot be used for Amazon prime. It didn’t matter to them. Though we had done all the research we could, we still missed this hidden policy. We were so alarmed at this practice of burying a policy and still holding customers responsible for it that I sent back my brand-new Kindle Fire and all of the accessories. I want no part of them. I cannot trust Amazon.
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evildave
22. oktober 2012 18.38
This is why I use ‘Calibre’ to manage my e-books, and downloaded, and removed the DRM from all of the books I bought.
http://calibre-ebook.com/http://xkcd.com/488/Svar på denne kommentaren
nick
22. oktober 2012 18.42
She needs to ask to speak with a supervisor, and/or find phone numbers for real people at Amazon and start ringing alarm bells. And publishing this more on the internet will also help, since public shaming of companies seems to be the only way to get them to respond sometimes. I will be re-tweeting this link and encouraging others to do the same.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Jón Frímann
22. oktober 2012 18.44
This is a violation of EU laws. Amazon can not do this, as she is located within EU single market (EEA).
As Amazon is located in Luxembourg the EU law applies to Amazon, even if she did buy the e-books off the U.S web site (since Amazon does not offer people to buy e-books from there UK web site).
More on the rights here,
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/buying-services/index_en.htmThis is a case. Do not let Amazon get away with this rubbish explanation.
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Jiv
22. oktober 2012 18.44
Thanks in advance .I will never buy an Amzon Kindle after reading this article.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Stefan
22. oktober 2012 18.51
What can she do? Its simple:
She might go to a shop tha sells kindles, take them and crash them on the ground. She has the right to do so, because these Kindles were related to (means: look quite the same) a previously blocked one (her own).
Svar på denne kommentaren
ferret
22. oktober 2012 18.53
That would be like people from a bookshop coming into my house and taking all of the books I legally bought from them, because of things that may not be true.
Another reason to buy physical books with cash – I leave no audit trail, and taking them after purchase is theft.
So, Amazon, how many customers will you lose on principle?
Svar på denne kommentaren
David
22. oktober 2012 18.56
My wife wants a Kindle for her birthday gift. I sent her your post and convinced her its a BAD idea. Now she wants to wait for the iPad mini! Thanks for nothing Amazon.
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J
22. oktober 2012 18.58
Pirate for life!!!
Svar på denne kommentaren
Bill
22. oktober 2012 19.04
Easy solution: pirate your kindle books. This is amazon’s loss, not really Linn. She will just buy her books elsewhere or streak them. Snooks are a competitive market these days
Svar på denne kommentaren
Terry
22. oktober 2012 19.05
Might not do anything, but I’ve chatted with Amazon support and voiced my concern.
As a member who has spent much money with them, I hope my my voice aids in joining the chorus of shocked customers.
If nobody advocates for you, who will advocate for me when my Kindle is suddenly empty?
Svar på denne kommentaren
Ambrose Mnemopolous
22. oktober 2012 19.06
“Cloud Computing” is just a nice way to say “Digital Equivalent of Tenant Farmer.” You never “have” the things you “buy” and whatever you “subscribe” to requires the continual purchase of Internet access to “keep,” though any of this can be “taken” from you at any time, even if you keep paying for a connection…
Svar på denne kommentaren
Jeff Jarvis
22. oktober 2012 19.07
I sent this email to Amazing Kindle Press relations
… This case of DRM enforcement has been brought to my attention and I wanted to get your official word on what is happening here:
http://www.bekkelund.net/2012/10/22/outlawed-by-amazon-drm/ Are the facts presented here correct?
If so, why was this done to this user’s account?
What is your policy regarding notifying customers of alleged infractions?
What is your policy regarding appeals?
What is your policy regarding one’s rightful ownership of bought materials?
Please respond by email as I will be teaching class at the City University of New York this afternoon.
Thank you.
- Jeff Jarvis
(I am a journalist and journalism professor in New York.)
Will post updates here:
https://plus.google.com/u/1/105076678694475690385/posts/Fo1STJQvedfSvar på denne kommentaren
Andrew
22. oktober 2012 19.07
So far most books for my Kindle I got from Project Gutenberg, the rest are mostly periodical subscriptions.
I love my Kindle, but I might just buy myself a Samsung and ditch Amazon; they may consider the exchange of a good for money to constitute something less than an outright purchase, but I don’t.
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Cliff Huizenga
22. oktober 2012 19.08
Absolutely terrible. I can’t believe Amazon would do such a thing. Then again, I’m not too surprised.
This post actually inspired me to write my thoughts about this issue and DRM on my blog (referencing/linking to this post, of course) – DRM: Doesn’t Really Matter. It’s a sad state of affairs when a Kindle user has to worry that one day their collection of paid ebooks could just disappear on them.
I wish your friend, Linn, the best of luck in getting her account and purchases restored. The Internet’s on her side!
Svar på denne kommentaren
MF
22. oktober 2012 19.14
Amazon seems to be causing problems like this with reviews and authors too. Customers are noticing that their reviews are being deleted, and getting e-mail responses similar to the ones you describe here:
http://killzoneauthors.blogspot.ca/2012/10/et-tu-amazon.htmlSvar på denne kommentaren
AndreasP
22. oktober 2012 19.16
Everyone who buys e-books from a company like amazon is really at his/her own fault. I wouldn’t dream buying their crap.
In this case, I’d suggest bringing this outrageous behaviour to the attention of the American press.
Svar på denne kommentaren
matt
22. oktober 2012 19.20
I had a duplicate purchase on Amazon and could not get them to either refund or credit the second purchase, for down loadable software. So I canceled one through my bank and have been banned for life also. I sent the emails showing where I requested the refund and it did not help. Overall life without Amazon has been great.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Álex
22. oktober 2012 19.21
I’ll definitely make a backup of all the books I’ve bought at Amazon just in case. It is possible to break Amazon’s DRM and it’s legal to do so in some jurisdictions.
I don’t want Amazon to bug me like this. It’s unfair.
Svar på denne kommentaren
kjbaj
22. oktober 2012 19.30
I’m nobody really, so I don’t think Amazon will care, but I closed my account –
http://kjbaj.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/amazons-jurisdiction/Svar på denne kommentaren
Gord L
22. oktober 2012 19.30
I assume there are still copies of the books somewhere on her computer, right? Though it doesn’t solve the problem of Amazon wiping her account and treating her like a criminal, I think her only recourse would be to find a way to strip the DRM, convert the books to epub, and get herself a new reader.
Please post a followup to tell us how she makes out. I hope someone at Amazon will realize they made a mistake and sort it out.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Nilson
22. oktober 2012 19.32
thanks for the post, I was in doubt between kindle and kobo, but now I’ve made my decision, kindle never more.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Cowtowncoder
22. oktober 2012 19.43
Linn should email Jeff Bezos (Amazon founder, CEO) with details, politely explaining what happened. He actually reads his email and takes action. This based on knowing some Amazon employees who were part of so-called “Bezos escalations”. And these do get results, as he and Amazon actually take customer service seriously.
Something has gone colossally wrong here, and while Amazon has been doing bad things, this is not typical of their customer service at all.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Istvan (@lix)
22. oktober 2012 19.46
Just sue them. They have to prove to the curt that you were violating your terms and if they can they have to pay you back everything + a nice sum why they caused damage to you.
I guess there are some lawyers would do this even for free just to get the fame.
Och, btw. this is why I never purchase online books. I feel sorry for the trees but it is a bit harder to remove the book from my shelf.
Good luck!
Svar på denne kommentaren
M
22. oktober 2012 19.47
Hi
Try contacting the BBC radio program “money box” – they are very good at following up on this kind of thing and usually the bad publicity is enough to get the company to at least sit up and listen.
Good luck
Svar på denne kommentaren
mikkom
22. oktober 2012 19.50
Hello,
Do you already know that amazon claims your article is “spam”?
This is a chat log linked from guardian article:
https://p.6core.net/p/hx5voap6k84ndcrncheers
Mikkom
Svar på denne kommentaren
William
22. oktober 2012 19.54
I’m reminded of the opening credits to Monty Python’s Quest for the Holy Grail. Your account has been sacked. Any attempt to open a different account will be sacked. Your books and property has been sacked. Your parents, dog, and car have been sacked. Your house has been sacked. Any further complaints will result in you being sacked. I have just been sacked. Amazon has just been sacked. The ones who sacked us have also been sacked. The sackers have been sacked. Have a nice day. Please deposit 25 cents to continue being sacked.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Bacon
22. oktober 2012 19.55
This is why I pirate books and movies. DRMs ruined it for me. I kept losing my purchased digital items.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Thomas
22. oktober 2012 19.55
Time to buy a traditional tablet PC and pirate all your books. It’s a shame that people have I resort to piracy, but would you rather pirate your books or buy them only to have them wiped and you account destroyed? Companies complain to high end about piracy while simultaneously being oblivious to the fact that they are the ones driving once paying customers to piracy. Shame on Amazon. Ill make sure to tell my dad to run his eBooks through a program that wipes them of their DRM just in case this happens to him.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Bernd
22. oktober 2012 19.57
The same thing happened to german customers on Amazon.DE as written in the it-magazine “ct” a few month ago.
Seems to me that they need to be stopped by law!
Svar på denne kommentaren
Enno Lenze
22. oktober 2012 19.57
As a publisher i’m frustrated hearing this. All my books are delivered DRM free, but some of the stores add DRM. I wil spread your story to other publishers, showing them that drm works against the customers, not against the illegal copies.
Regards, Enno
Svar på denne kommentaren
Steven
22. oktober 2012 20.04
I’ll contribute $100 to a fund to sue them and subpoena them for the reason they closed your account.
Svar på denne kommentaren
by a name
22. oktober 2012 20.06
Thanks for sharing.
I’ve already been trying to avoid amazon.
Now I’ll prorably completely boycott them.
Svar på denne kommentaren
Elias Aarnio
22. oktober 2012 20.13
Moral of the story: never trust a US company. Period.
Svar på denne kommentaren
eddiedout
22. oktober 2012 20.22
Check out Cory Doctorow’s post on this, along with the comments which follow:
http://boingboing.net/2012/10/22/kindle-user-claims-amazon-dele.htmlSvar på denne kommentaren
Greg
22. oktober 2012 20.25
Sounds like the 2009 case where they remotely wiped books people had purchased because of licensing issues. There was a bit of a stink then, too!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.htmlhttp://www.slashgear.com/amazon-1984-ebook-case-settled-new-remote-delete-policy-revealed-0258787/Svar på denne kommentaren
Rod Younger
22. oktober 2012 20.33
10 reasons not to buy books about Spain from Amazon!!
http://books4spain.com/blog/top-10-reasons-to-buy-books-about-spain-from-books4spain-not-amazon/Letter to Dept of Justice re Agency pricing and Amazon
http://books4spain.com/blog/letter-to-dept-of-justice-re-agency-pricing-and-amazon/Svar på denne kommentaren
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Topic: "1984" refurbished: "Outlawed by Amazon DRM" (Read 4944 times)